Painting is hard

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 10/31/2018 at 08:58 • Filed to: Spit6

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Gloss on. Lovely deep sheen, but a fair few runs again. I’ve razor-bladed them off which worked a treat, but you’ve got to have a steady hand as sometimes I slipped and put deeper cuts in. Sanding these out has gone through the lacquer again, so the current plan is to use my airbrush to patch these areas up and flat them back out again :)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/31/2018 at 10:11

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If you end up with runs again, try wet-sanding them out.

It takes more time, but it’s far less dangerous than trying to “scrape” off runs. If you do feel you need to scrape them out, back drag the blade instead of cutting. This way the blade lays flat with the “good” paint and only scrapes off the run. Then you can wet sand and buff to get it all perfect.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/31/2018 at 10:58

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Awesome to see that you’re still making progress on the Spit, amidst all the work on the Fiat! Shame to hear about those runs in the paint, but the airbrush sounds like a good solution to patch it up .  

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/31/2018 at 12:13

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Yeah I started with wet-sanding, but I found that occasionally it would sand through the paint slightly either side of the run before the run itself. Even using a piece of 4x2 rather than the wooden block.

And yeah I worked out the technique with razor blades. You scrape rather than cut. Just think I was a little too aggressive with it, but other than that it works really well :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 10/31/2018 at 12:14

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Yeah #I find it’s actually quite useful to have two projects on the go at once. There’s always times when you’re waiting for parts for one of them, but you can work on the other one so there’s no time or motivation wasted ;)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/31/2018 at 12:18

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The quicker solve is to just not get runs ;)

Monkey B > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/31/2018 at 15:21

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I’d recolor those spots and reclear the entire effected panel. If you just spot that in and blend/polish it you’ll have a noticeable haze or ring.

For big runs there are small block files that you can cut the bulk off with then block sand. Usually they are a 1" square with different levels of aggressiveness on each side.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Monkey B 11/03/2018 at 07:55

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Ah, it's nit the colour that's gone through it's the clearcoat :) would that still produce a little ring haze?

Monkey B > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/03/2018 at 08:33

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if you need to repaint due to going through either the color or clear you need to repaint the entire panel. Otherwise you’ll have a haze, or after polishing a distinct line.

I’m not 100% sure I can tell what’s in that photo. What exactly is that above your reflection?

Wish I lived around you, then I could really help. Since I don’t do it daily anymore it’s actually enjoyable when I do.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/04/2018 at 06:39

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If you’re getting runs on that kind of area, I’d say you’re using way too much paint in one go. You normally don’t get runs with only slightly too thick a coat - it requires much more paint than you should be applying in one go. I thought you meant you were getting runs on funny corners where you couldn’t spray straight-on.

I’ve no experience with car spraying, but possibly you’re not giving it long enough to flow out before deciding there’s not enough paint and it’s orange-peel- y ? Or you need to thin the paint slightly more.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 11/05/2018 at 13:29

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That sounds pretty much bang on ;) this last coat of gloss was done in a bit of a rush so I bet it sounds highly likely it didn’t have enough flash-off between coats. I also think that my lack of extraction setup means flashing off takes longer as the air gets pretty saturated.

I’ve decided I’m going to sand everything down and do it again, but I’ll really take my time with this one.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/06/2018 at 07:16

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Yeah, there’s no substitute for slow and careful sometimes.

I tend to find with jobs like this I start off being very cautiou s, and because I’m being very cautious it’s going well - so then I think I must be able to go faster, and that’s when it all goes wrong in some really basic way.

I once saw an example of ‘always remember the basics’ that seared it into my memory . A courier turned up to a job with a large pot of (gold!) oil-based paint. He’d been held up in traffic and arrived a bit after he was due, so he was rushing as he fumbled to get the paperwork out. He forgot the most basic part of his job: don’t drop the parcel. As it bounced all the way down three or four flights of stairs the paint came open and, well, you don’t get coverage like that with a roller...

With painting, try hard to keep in mind at all times that it’s a lot less work to fix too little paint than too much. Whenever you think ‘hmmn, could that bit do with just a little bit more paint ?’ the answer is almost certainly no :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Monkey B 11/09/2018 at 08:18

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Interesting. Even if you sand the whole panel down and back up to polish?

The bits above my reflection are runs that have started being scraped back :)

Wish you were! Would probably have got this finished weeks ago!

Monkey B > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/09/2018 at 16:30

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there is no circumstance where it works. The best you can do is blends on areas like a quarter sail panel (c pillar) etc. Corners of bumpers and things like that but that haze is always present and can only handle a mild polish to blend. Eventually though, even if it’s a successful blend, that line eventually shows up. Minimum you can do is an entire panel for best results.

Back in the lacquer days you could get more out of polishing blends as lacquer doesn’t cure, it just dries. I have little experience with it as it was already old and rarely used when I started painting.

Curious, what region are you in? Weather here is at the point you’d need a heated garage. What paint brand and type are you using?

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 11/17/2018 at 12:42

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Do they have any Fuller’s pubs round your way?

B eer vouchers for Monday night: https://www.fullers.co.uk/gettogether

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/10/2019 at 11:18

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Do you still have your list of engine weights?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 02/11/2019 at 19:57

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Hey man :) long time no speak!

Yep, still have them :) what were you after?

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/13/2019 at 08:19

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Was it online somewhere? And do you have dimensions too?

I keep wondering about whether an LS V8 would fit transversely in an MG F - an I4 and a V8 are both four cylinders long, and there’s room behind the current engine for another bank if you use the boot . Purely hypothetical unless you know next week’s lottery numbers :)

Along similar lines, the Camry is just the right track-width to stick a TF subframe in the back...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 02/13/2019 at 09:51

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Ah I see where you’re going ;) I started on dimensions, but they’re surprisingly hard to find (fro my experience, measuring engines is a real bugger as you have bits that stick out all over the place).

Here’s a link to it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0—iKskrrxYazR5eG9LLS10Zlk/view?usp=sharing

I know for certain you can get a Rover V6 to fit with some modification to the boot, but they’re 60 degree engines rather than a 90 degree v8 so would be more compact.

Would make a hell of a car though ;)

Actually, one of the ideas I had at some point was to make a bit of a turbo K-series. There was a turbo 75, but it only had a non-VVC head so isn’t the greatest for flow. However, it did have shorter rods to lower the CR so sticking them in a VVC engine should make quite a good little engine!

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/25/2019 at 05:46

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Wow, that’s impressive. I seem to recall you talking about the difficulty finding consistent figures - did you manage to deal with that? I’ m surprised by e.g. the weight of a rotary compared to a big block V8.

Didn’t Rover have a turbo version of the K-series called the T-series? Or was that a different engine? I definitely remember 400s with a turbo - they had the hump in the bonnet for it.

Isn’t turbo k-series a bolt-on kit these days? So much tuning for that engine, especially from other applications like the Elise. None of the engine swap ideas make any sense, because you can get so much power with conventional k-series tuning.

But then, a Hennessey Venom G F  would be fun...

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 03/06/2019 at 06:37

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Haha thanks man ;) need to do something to stop my brain melting at work!

I’ve tried to be as realistic with the weights of engines as possible. Some people are great and literally have a picture of the engine fully dressed on scales. Others (* coug h* BMW’s service manuals * cough*) must weight literally the bare engine block and head to get their numbers. Where I haven’t been able to get a fully dressed weight that’s reliable I haven’t included it.

Dimensions I still haven’t found a good way to measure it. Perhaps I could just get the measurements for the block and heads itself as all the rest of it can be custom made if necessary.

The T-Series (and M-Series) are different engines. They’re distantly related to the B-Series which was significantly reworked into the O-Series and then given a DOHC head to make the M-Series. Iron block, alloy head, and a bit bigger than the K. They’re awesome engines though :) a turbo one of those in an F would be bloody quick!

The trouble with turbo K-Series is that you can get low 200s pretty easily either NA or turbo, which in all honesty would be more than enough. Going higher than that takes a fair bit of work though (I’ve seen one at 317bhp here: http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D1114%26but_sea%3Dqs/Lotus-Elise-me.htm )

Seeing as my mate has an MX-5 with ~300bhp and is gunning for 400, if I’m goi ng to turbo it I’m going to do it properly ;) I would still like to keep the K though, just because it’s so damn light. Compare it to basically any other 4-cylinder (aside from the Ford Sigma Zetec) and it’s way lighter. It’s even 20kg lighter than a rotary!

Oh, just noticed the online spreadsheet is a bit of an older one. Only 500 or so lines. I’ve got nearly 1200 now! Will upload a new version :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 03/06/2019 at 06:51

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Tada!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yISbAhMEM6U86yBLBON6DWKhfHHKlHYH/view?usp=sharing

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/27/2019 at 11:23

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Oh. I forgot I hadn’t responded to this. Thanks, it’s got some fascinating data. Ought to turn it into a Wiki and get people to help.

Where on earth did you find numbers for the air-cooled Tatra V8?!

davedave1111 > davedave1111 03/27/2019 at 11:29

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BTW, I had a small leak into the boot recently, so pulled the boot carpet to dry. Have you seen what’s under it?

There’s loads of roughly-smeared silicone sealant, which was done before the car was sprayed. Out of sight, that’ll do, right?

Also, had a bit of trouble tracking down the source of the leak. Soaked the whole thing with a hose, nothing. When I eventually found it, turned out there was a little air bubble forming when lots of water was poured on, which sealed the hole. It was only slow, steady wetness that would get in. A tiny blob of silicone solved the problem once I knew where to put it .